by Jay Johansen | Jan 4, 2008
Radiometric dating supposedly proves that the Earth is billions of years old. The theory behind radiometric dating sounds very convincing. But does it actually work in practice? When someone tells us that a certain rock is a billion years old, how can we confirm this? No one was there to see it, right?
A recent letter-writer says that radiometric dating is proven because many different methods all give the same results. This would be interesting if true, but it simply isn't. Many different methods have been proposed to estimate the age of the earth, and they give results ranging from billions of years (e.g. radiometric methods), to a million or so (e.g. influx of salts into the oceans), to thousands (e.g. decay of the Earth's magnetic field).
One researcher, Dr. David Plaisted, searched the technical journals for studies that compared the results of different dating methods on specific samples. He found only one such study, comparing Potassium-Argon to Rubidium-Strontium, and, he writes, "the results were not good". He cautiously concludes, "[A]n assumption of agreement appears to be without support so far."
There are many examples of disagreement.
Potassium-Argon tests on a lava flow from Rangitoto volcano in New Zealand dated it at 400,000 years. Buried in the lava flow are trees trunks, which were carbon-14 dated to 225 years.
Five samples from a lava flow in Washington state were dated by Potassium-Argon, giving ages ranging from 340,000 to 2.8 million years. That's quite a range! Another dating method gave an even younger age: Eyewitnesses watched that lava flow being formed when Mt. St. Helens erupted in 1980.
Lava flows from Hualalai Volcano in Hawaii were dated at 140 million to 2.96 billion years. In fact Hualalai erupted in 1801.
In some cases the evolutionists offer explanations of what went wrong. They say the lava from Hualalai was under water for many years, which caused certain chemical and physical effects that contaminated the sample. Maybe so. But are they then telling us that all the other sites that have been dated to such long ages were never, ever, in all those supposed billions of years, ever under water or otherwise contaminated?
If when you CAN corroborate the evidence, someone is repeatedly proven to be wrong, perhaps you should be cautious about taking their word for it in cases where there is no way to test their claims.
© 2008 by Jay Johansen
Mike Durbin Mar 18, 2014
I need a little more info. about Hualalai volcano, Hawaii, and Rangitoto volcano, New Zealand... what laboratories did
the rock dating and who was involved? Can you help me?
Jay Johansen Mar 18, 2014
Hualalai: I got this information from "Scientific Creationism", by Henry Morris, page 147. He cites J. G. Funkhouser and JJ Naughton, Journal of Geophysical Research, July 15, 1968, p 4606. I have not read the original journal article. I don't think Funkhouser and Naughton are creationists -- Morris is citing their data, not their conclusions.
Rangitoto: I don't recall where I got that information originally, but a little Internet search turns up a better source than what I likely had to start with: "Age of the Auckland Volcanic Field", by Jan Lindsay and Graham Leonard, School of Environment & Institute of Earth Science and Engineering, The University of Auckland. They cite a large number of researchers and labs as their sources -- they apparently did a bunch of research and collected a large number of data points. See the charts on page 55 and following. They show C-14 dates for materials found within the lava flows ranging from 159 to 1114 years. Then they have K-Ar dates on the lava flows themselves of 146,000 to 465,000. (The discrepancy within each set of dates is not quite as large as those numbers may indicate: there were two separate eruptions which, based on the C-14, they conclude happened ca 225 years ago and 600 years ago.) Note that this study is by no means attempting to discredit radiometric dating and there's no indication that the authors are creationists: the facts I'm citing are side notes to their analysis. In the main text of the article they state: "[A]attempts to date the lava using K-Ar have been unsuccessful due to excess Ar". In other words, we tried to date it using K-Ar, but the answer didn't come out right, so we're ignoring it.
Mike Durbin Mar 22, 2014
Thanks Jay for the response. I bought the 35 pages submitted by Ian McDougall, H.A. Polach, and J.J. Stipp, about the Auckland volcanic field. (Not cheap.) I'm putting a little T.V. program together about the age of the earth so i want to see these papers for myself so i don't end up with egg on my face. The "ABSTRACT" states the findings the same way you do.
I can't find much of anything, "on either side", about the 1997 argon-argon dating method article, by Robert Sanders, Berkeley Geochronology Center, or much of anything about the
argon-argon method itself. Why is that?
Note: If you want a copy of the ABSTRACT or the 35 pages i will send them to you. Thanks.
Jay Johansen Mar 23, 2014
I wrote the original article here as a letter to the editor to my local paper, so it's much more terse than I would have liked, not giving any citations, etc. Yes, I understand you wanting to have primary sources to avoid being embarrassed. (Hey, I just gave a lecture on Canaanite religion at a Bible conference, not likely there would be any pro-Canaanites in the audience to argue with me, but I still went back to primary sources and I was rather uncomfortable with the fact that I didn't have primary sources for a couple of important points.) Anyway, I've seen a fair number of articles in the creationist press on radiometric dating anomalies. Specifically on Ar-Ar dating? I can't think of any, but I haven't been keeping a catalog. I can't think of any rebuttals from the evolutionist side on any of this. I've seen a few comments here and there to the effect of "well of course there are experimental errors here and there, so what?", frankly, I couldn't give you citations for those. Whether I'm just not paying attention to the evolutionist literature, they don't have a rebuttal, they see it as a non-issue not worth rebutting, etc, I can't say.
Mike Durbin Apr 1, 2014
Jay, I found a few Ar-Ar articles, "anomalies". I was surprised to read the official statement, "radiometric dating
is a experimental discipline".
Putting a warning label on radiometric dating should have been done 70 years ago. Keep up the good work.
Chris Falter Jun 23, 2015
@Mike Durbin - Appreciate your paying attention to the original studies. According to Brent Dalrymple of TalkOrigins, the Hualalei study dated xenoliths that were carried by the lava flow, rather than the lava itself. www.talkorigins.org/faqs/dalrymple/radiometric_dating.html
Assuming Dalrymple is correct, the Hualalei study should *NOT* be cited as demonstrating the inaccuracy of K-Ar dating.
But of course, I haven't spent the money to read the original study. Since you have, Mike, would you be so kind as to check its methodology to see whether Dalrymple is correct about the xenoliths?
Chris Falter Jun 23, 2015
@Jay - Regarding the "Age of the Auckland Volcanic Field" study: we can conclude that K-Ar dating could be off by up to 400,000 years or so due to the presence of Ar at the time of formation. So if K-Ar dating shows that a rock is 1.0 billion years old, we should subtract 400,000 years and say the rock is 999,600,000 years old instead. I can agree with that.
We are dealing with the precision of the instrument here.
* You cannot use a physician's scale to weigh a postage stamp, but you can use it to weigh a human.
* You cannot use a radar gun to measure the speed of a snail, but you can use it to measure the speed of a thrown pitch.
* You cannot use K-Ar dating to measure the age of a rock that is 100,000 years old, but you can use it to measure a geological formation that is a billion years old.
Jay Johansen Jul 7, 2015
Chris Falter: I certainly agree with the general principle behind what you say. I think both creation-leaning and evolution-leaning physicists cringe when they hear people say that Carbon-14 dating proves that the Earth is billions of years old, as C-14 is useless for such large ages. To borrow your analogy, it's like using a postal scale to weigh Rocky Mountains.
But I don't think your point is relevant here. Yes, K-Ar has a half-life of a little over a billion years, so you might think that the greatest accuracy would be in dating samples 1 billion years old: you'd have 50% parent and 50% daughter element, and measurement errors would be minimized. But in practice K-Ar is a very complex dating method. K-40 has three different decay modes, so there are multiple daughter products to deal with. Labs rarely measure the K-40 directly because it is such a small portion of the total sample compared to the K-39 and K-41 -- about 0.01%. According to physics.info, K-Ar has been used to date samples from 10,000 to 3 billion years old. Other sources I've seen give a much narrower range, typically a lower limit of 100,000 to 200,000 years and an upper limit of millions or tens of millions. Either way, 400,000 is safely within that range.
The Lindsay/Leonard study that I quote in this article gives the margin of error on their 100,000+ year samples of generally 2 - 3%, like on the 465,000 year age they give the margin of error as +/- 11,000 years. When they give K-Ar dates less than 100,000 years their margin of error is often very high compared to the estimated age, but at no point do they concede a margin of error of 400,000 years. The highest I could find is 40,000, an order of magnitude difference.
That is, evolutionary physicists routinely claim that K-Ar is a reliable method for dating samples considerably younger than 400,000 years (and older, but that's not the issue here). If your claim is that the evolutionists who date these samples and publish the results are seriously confused about when the method is useful and the accuracy of the ages they publish ... well, hmmm, you're starting to sound like one of us crazy creationists. :-)
geomineral.ru Jun 10, 2017
There are well over forty different radiometric dating methods, and scores of other methods such as tree rings and ice cores.
Jay Johansen Jun 18, 2017
Sure. Many methods of dating the age of the Earth or of some particular fossil or geologic formation have been proposed.
And that's an important point. Most of these methods give ages much younger than the radiometric methods.
For example, the amount of salt in the oceans is increasing, as erosion and other factors constantly add salt while processes to remove salt are much slower, giving a net postive influx. If the oceans started out with no salts at all, then to reach present levels at present rates would take about 62 million years. So that's the maximum possible age of the oceans.
The strength of the Earth's magnetic field is decreasing. If you project backwards, then by 10,000 years ago the magnetic field would have been so strong as to make life as we know it impossible.
Helium is produced as a by-product of radioactive decay of U-238. Thus the amount of Helium in the atmosphere is increasing. If we calculate how long it would take to reach present levels at the current rate, we calculate a maximum age of the atmosphere of about 1.76 million years.
There are dozens, perhaps hundreds, of dating methods that have been proposed. Almost all of these give younger ages than radiometric methods. But evolutionary scientists take the radiometric methods as unquestionable and all other methods are dismissed as flawed because they conflict with the radiometric methods. Or perhaps, because they don't give the long ages needed to make evolution sound plausible.
PhillipTer Jul 21, 2017
It seems to me that this web site doesnt download on a win mobile
Online Apotheek Nederland Aug 7, 2017
Wat kost bij de apotheek frankrijk en prijs nederland amsterdam, zonder recept kopen online, capsules tabletten of echte bestellen recept. Generieke betrouwbaar, misschien kopen bestellen en zelfs prijs frankrijk spanje of te koop prijs, hoewel misschien waar koop ik voorschrift.
Alejandra Aug 7, 2017
tirage tarot en ligne gratuit fiable oracle de belline
gratuit 2014 tirage du tarot de marseille gratuit pour le mois tarot
divinatoire gratuit au feminin tarots tirages
gratuits meilleur site tirage tarot gratuit tirage tarot gratuit amour 2014 comment tirer les tarots gratuitement tirage tarot avenir
gratuit en ligne tarot amour tirage gratuit tirage
tarot de l'oracle de belline de l'amour tirage gratuit du tarot de
marseille en ligne tirage carte tarot trefle tirage tarot chinois tirage tarot serieux et fiable tirages gratuits tarots denis lapierre
tirage marie claire tarot tirage tarot du couple gratuit en ligne tirage tarot gratuit
et interpretation immediate tarot marseille tirage gratuit en ligne tarot a 4 gratuit en ligne tirage de tarots
Martinram Aug 7, 2017
I used to be very happy to find this web-site.I just wrote an very long comment but after I clicked submit my comment didn’t appear. Anyways, just wanted to say thnx
escort frankreich Aug 7, 2017
Mais je dis bien, une fois que j'aurai TERMINE !
ClassicCarsDealer Aug 8, 2017
RickyClassicCars.com - We are specialists with a passion for Classic Cars! Sells a wide range of classic cars and oldtimers. We are one of the best classic car dealers from Indonesia. Ricky Classic Cars can perfectly assist you with the purchase of a classic car. We'll work with you to find a suitable classic car, inland or abroad. Whether you like to work on an oldtimer yourself or you have no technical knowledge at all, you will definitely succeed in finding the perfect classic car at Ricky Classic Cars! Whether you are thinking of buying a vintage or classic car, or indeed, you would like to sell your car, then we can certainly help and advise.
Ricky Classic Cars is a trusted and licensed Indonesian Classic Cars Dealer. We also offer premier consignment services. Whether one car or an entire collection, Ricky Classic Cars has the best internet-driven marketing program to find a new owner for your vehicle, as well as a vast client network all over the world. We handle many brand of Cars, from Classic Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, Ferrari, Austin Healey, Maserati, and many more... Just let us know which brands you like and we will provide it for you :)
ElenaEvice Aug 11, 2017
<H1> Prostitutes </H1>
Kiev prostitutes to the hotel expensive
Clarence Aug 11, 2017
definition ermite tarot tirage tarots amour gratuit
ligne application jeux tarot gratuit tarot financier gratuit
tarot d amour gratuit marie claire tirage du jour tarot tarot immediat et gratuit tarot 52
carte interpretation carte tarot un tarot tarot d marseille oracle tarot lucy cavendish interpretation tarot
avec tirage gratuit regle crapette tarot le bateleur tarot sante
tarot 10 trefle tirage tarot voyance magie osho zen tarot patience tarot et
kabbale pdf tirage tarot gratuit lapierre tarot magie avigora tarot
Genie Aug 12, 2017
carte tarot le diable tarot immediat gratuit marie
claire association amoureux imperatrice tarot association etoile soleil tarot tarot astro
le meilleur tarot divinatoire gratuit tirage tarot 7 jours gratuit
carte l'hermite tarot marseille diable ermite tarot tirage tarot voyance
gratuite tirage tarot camoin tarot oui non avenir facile tarot oui
non pendule tarot 2017 gratuit signification du tarot le
diable le mat tarot en reponse tirage tarot en croix astro tarot
suisse le bateleur tarot signification tarot en direct tarot amoureux
du jour tirage carte tarot en croix
Lima Agency UK Aug 14, 2017
Prices in canada, lowest price for online and where to buy in store, price in mexico except can i buy over the counter in australia. New zealand cost also buying online australia, price nz and uk source despite prices australia.
abhia lBok Aug 23, 2017
StevenPeera Aug 30, 2017
Hello everyone, I am new to, please look at a lot, thank you!
Marilyntus Aug 30, 2017
Hello let's get together I want you to Bang me in an adult my nickname (Elvira78)
Copy the link and go to me... bit.ly/2wBKSBp
Fofockdow Aug 30, 2017
TorAddesse ggnpbgspgwa kgdz slzastzv
average male penis length and girth May 9, 2018
Hello! The above equation makes use of information on the composition of parent and daughter isotopes at the time the material being tested cooled below its closure temperature. This is well-established for most isotopic systems. Radiometric dating has been carried out since 1905 when it was invented by Ernest Rutherford as a method by which one might determine the age of the Earth . In the century since then the techniques have been greatly improved and expanded.
MelaniT Jun 26, 2018
Together with stratigraphic principles , radiometric dating methods are used in geochronology to establish the geologic time scale .
RichardCuddy Jul 25, 2018
JamesTiz Oct 6, 2018
I really loved what you had to say, and more than that, how you presented it. Too cool!
propecia finasteride Nov 27, 2018
Interesting post.. useful information. Thanks
RonaldMetactita Apr 29, 2019
Can you please advise what is the best way to promote your website?
Pablojoiva May 25, 2019
Hey. Soon your hosting account and your domain johansens.us will be blocked forever, and you will receive tens of thousands of negative feedback from angry people.
Pay me 0.5 BTC until June 1, 2019.
Otherwise, you will get the reputation of a malicious spammer, your site johansens.us will be blocked for life and you will be sued for insulting believers. I guarantee this to you.
My bitcoin wallet: 19ckouUP2E22aJR5BPFdf7jP2oNXR3bezL
Here is a list of what you get if you don’t follow my requirements:
+ abuse spamhouse for aggressive web spam
+ tens of thousands of negative reviews about you and your website from angry people for aggressive web and email spam
+ lifetime blocking of your hosting account for aggressive web and email spam
+ lifetime blocking of your domain for aggressive web and email spam
+ Thousands of angry complaints from angry people will come to your mail and messengers for sending you a lot of spam
+ complete destruction of your reputation and loss of clients forever
+ for a full recovery from the damage you need tens of thousands of dollars
All of the above will result in blocking your domain and hosting account for life. The price of your peace of mind is 0.5 BTC.
Do you want this?
If you do not want the above problems, then before June 1, 2019, you need to send me 0.5 BTC to my Bitcoin wallet: 19ckouUP2E22aJR5BPFdf7jP2oNXR3bezL
How do I do all this to get this result:
1. I will send messages to 33 000 000 sites with contact forms with offensive messages with the address of your site, that is, in this situation, you and the spammer and insult people.
And everyone will not care that it is not you.
2. I’ll send messages to 19,000,000 email addresses and very intrusive advertisements for making money and offer a free iPhone with your website address johansens.us and your contact details.
And then send out abusive messages with the address of your site.
3. I will do aggressive spam on blogs, forums and other sites (in my database there are 35 978 370 sites and 315 900 sites from which you will definitely get a huge amount of abuse) of your site johansens.us.
After such spam, the spamhouse will turn its attention on you and after several abuses your host will be forced to block your account for life.
Your domain registrar will also block your domain permanently.
All of the above will result in blocking your domain and hosting account for life.
If you do not want to receive thousands of complaints from users and your hosting provider, then pay before June 1, 2019.
The price of your peace of mind is 0.5 BTC.
Otherwise, I will send your site through tens of millions of sites that will lead to the blocking of your site for life and you will lose everything and your reputation as well.
But get a reputation as a malicious spammer.
My bitcoin wallet: 19ckouUP2E22aJR5BPFdf7jP2oNXR3bezL
gta 4 crack patch download Jul 7, 2019
First, you must start early when the event is big in nature, at least four to six months in advance for a large event and at least one month for smaller events.
marianna Mar 23, 2020
Thanks for checking out my academic writing page . My name is Marianna.
I have worked since high school in this niche. My interest in writing started at a young age. I wrote journaled as a child and eventually went on to work with my school newspaper.
This early tryst into news reporting eventually led me to academic writing. There is plenty of work for qualified writers. I specialize in essays, but have the skills to do all types of academic writing.
Email me for more information about rates and a price quote. I’m looking forward to helping you.
Academic Writer – Marianna Jacobson – Write My Paper For Me
bentley Mar 24, 2020
Hello and welcome to my website . I’m Regan Hackett.
I have always dreamed of being a novelist but never dreamed I’d make a career of it. In college, though, I aided a fellow student who needed help. She could not stop telling me how well I had done. Word got around and someone asked me for to write their paper just a week later. This time they would compensate me for my work.
During the summer, I started doing research paper writing for students at the local college. It helped me have fun that summer and even funded some of my college tuition. Today, I still offer my research paper writing to students.
Writing Specialist – Regan – nataliecrawford31 Corp
brod utan mjol Mar 24, 2020
This excellent website really has all the information and facts I wanted about this subject and didn't know who to ask. brod utan mjol tanla.interestinghere.be/skin-care/broed-utan-mjoel.php brod utan mjol
SandraFak Mar 28, 2020
Hurry up to look into loveawake.ru you will find a lot of interesting things
koh samui vader Mar 30, 2020
Asking questions are in fact fastidious thing if you are not understanding anything fully, however this article provides fastidious understanding yet. koh samui vader nocal.interestinghere.be/advice-girlfriends/koh-samui-vaeder.php koh samui vader